What are you doing for no other reason than because you love Jesus? AND, what have you ceased doing for no other reason than His love for you?
Jack Miller asked that question of his congregation when he served as pastor at New Life Presbyterian Church, and of his students when he taught practical theology at Westminster Theological Seminary. Jack used to say, “Cheer up; you’re a lot worse off than you think you are, but in Jesus you’re far more loved than you could have ever imagined.”
i liked Jack’s question and then the statement … they inspire good conversation. Understanding grace a little better means understanding God a little better, and i think we all could definitely do with a closer comprehension of what our King is all about. Like i’ve said before, i think most of us have a head full of Bible, but somehow, we’ve missed the heart of the Father.
Knowing about God and actually knowing Him is the difference between studying the theology of grace and actually sitting down and having a face-to-face, transforming conversation with the Lord, who is the personification of grace … a conversation where you’re not in a hurry, taking the time to make eye contact and letting the conversational interaction weave it’s way into your heart. It’s the difference between understanding concepts and actually being known by a person; it’s the difference between knowing theological vocabulary versus being truly involved with the full-time job of knowing Jesus.
i’m Social Porter and this is Outposts. Our goal is to encourage us all to see a little more, to think a little deeper, to imagine a bit farther than we did before, all for the purpose of knowing Jesus more personally, to understand His great heart towards us, to experience, beyond the shadow of a doubt, His desire for our well being, our health and healing, every minute, every hour, every day, without fail, till we are standing in His presence forever as it was meant to be from the beginning.
If we’ll lift our head from being occupied with our phones, or maybe take the headphones off and listen to the world around us, it is amazing how much people talk about feelings, and what they felt when so-and-so did or said such-and-such. It seems we spend a lot of time talking to everyone else, BUT God.
Telling people about Jesus is called “witnessing”, but i believe we drop the ball by only telling answers rather than learning the skill of also asking questions and being involved with the lives of others. Encouraging others to learn how to have conversations is as much witnessing as telling people the facts, and there is a difference between “witnessing” and “visiting”. Eugene Peterson said we need to learn the art of small talk, because if we don’t we’ll never see the green shoots of grace growing in people’s back yards.
Conversations encourage exploration of the contexts, decisions, and behaviors of relationships. It is as much an employment of our faith to tell others about Jesus as it is to also be facilitators of conversation, allowing others to see in our lives concerning who God has made us to be … in hopes they will see the green shoots of grace in our own backyards … that’s called getting eye level with the world.
We need to learn to set the emotional parameters for a space that enables this sort of exploration: spaces that are safe, supportive and able to endure the pressure of challenge.
The value of conversation is the topic this evening, so put your feet up, catch your breath, tap your toe and dream a little.
So, a couple years ago i had the idea to take a conflict resolution course because i felt like the world around me was in such turmoil and i had no concept on how to even think about it much less help resolve anything. i was so terribly surprised by the first chapter’s direction, which was to address the conflict within myself. At first i scoffed, arrogantly, thinking, i don’t have any big issues, but whatever, i’ll go through this part to get to the rest of the course. Yea, uhh huh … well, as it turns out, i DID have a bunch of conflicts within myself that needed a conclusion, and in fact, i realized i can’t help anyone with their conflicts if i didn’t begin to face my own. Luke 6:41, “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?” You probably knew that verse was coming, but i thought it appropriate.
If we don’t face our own conflicts first it’s back to the idea that we can’t solve problems with the same mindset which created the problems. Only telling people about Jesus and never hanging around to be involved with them helps us to feel successful about ourselves without having to actually reveal anything of ourselves. We get to look pious and glorious while no one sees the dead grass in our own back yard…our self-attained piousness only works as long as we keep everyone at a distance, never letting anyone into our lives. i think maybe many of us love to make disciples but we don’t like raising them.
In light of that, a conversation is an informal exchange of views, observations, opinions, feelings, or ideas according to Webster’s … and there’s all kinds … quiet conversations, loud ones, personal or private conversations, and others which are the open forum type for anyone who would participate. They typically go in directions which aren’t predictable either, after all if it were scripted it wouldn’t be a conversation, it would be called a play. Have you ever tried to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t share anything of themselves? It doesn’t go far without some degree of vulnerability, and without vulnerability it usually feels more like someone is gleaning information from you than actually wanting to be involved with you. A good conversation is a risk because it requires transparency. To conversate we must go with the flow, and truly, there are people who don’t flow easily, so there again, conversation is not easily found with them.
A good conversation is more valuable than we imagine. It is us allowing others into our lives and others allowing us into theirs.
i’m going to say this several times in this program: If we don’t learn the art of conversation and even small talk, we’ll never see the green shoots of grace in people’s backyards. What that means is when we allow ourselves to access and be accessed, we, metaphorically, are allowed to walk around in the places of people’s lives which aren’t seen merely by walking by the front of their house. The front of their house is the presentation face, but their backyard is where they really live … conversation and small talk get them in our backyard and us in theirs. It requires some trust, which means we can’t just use our theological vocabulary, we’ve got to actually BE people of grace and kindness to facilitate a safe place for others. So what is a conversation? From what i can gather, a good conversation contains asking questions, giving information, proposing different perceptions, stating something that is true and reflecting understanding. How about listening and then testing ideas? All that is done gently with kindness of course.
In Luke11:9, when Jesus said ask, seek, knock, do you think that was just Him telling us how to get what we want, or was it more an invitation into a conversation with God?
In Genesis 2 & 3 there is the account of what God said, what the serpent said, what Eve said, and what Adam said. Of the eight recorded statements the Lord made, four were questions. Why do you think He asked Adam and Eve questions, but only gave statements to the serpent? i venture this: God wanted a conversation with Adam and Eve, but was not interested in a conversation with serpent. Friends, there is nothing hell has to say which we need to hear, i have no questions for hell, and they have no answers i need to hear. None. Nada. Never. And none.
Learning to ask good questions is as much an art as navigating good dialogue. i think, and this is just what i think, people who only tell answers aren’t too interested in friends, only subordinates. In my opinion women are far more relationship oriented than men so they ask questions. Questions, without being interrogators, are an invitation into a relationship, they are conversation encouragers.
Colossians 4:6, “Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.”
Luke 13:21, “It is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, until it was all leavened.”
If the Kingdom of Heaven is like leaven which is hid in the dough and doesn’t stop until the entire lump is leavened, how is that any different than us being more transparent and involved in people’s lives so Jesus is more easily revealed. We’ve got to go there … we can’t keep standing at a distance from a dying world, yelling the gospel across a divide between us and them but never actually being involved with the lost. We should not just be a distant light in the darkness in people’s lives, we should be the soft light of grace up close and personal. And if we’re going to let our lights shine up close and personal like, let us allow the Holy Spirit to resolve our worldly hearts of sourness, bad language which reflects our heart, fault finding, ignorance, and a downcast countenance. If we will let Him, God will fill us with aspects of courtesy, insight, grace, and salt. We are not monotony on two legs you know, we posses the very life and light of the universe in our hearts.
Matthew 5:16, “In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.”
Learning to have conversations with people is being involved in their lives…let us look to understand, and rather than working to constantly persuade them, which makes us look like hammers and everyone else is a nail, learn to listen … listen to the quieter ones, it seems they often see things but rarely express themselves. i’ve learned to use the word “and” which opens up further conversation and means “in addition to”. When we use “but” though, it shuts people down and means “with exception”, or maybe “I know something you don’t know”. i’m fairly certain, years ago, i was a chief in the “yea but” tribe … yea but, yea but, yea but … it made conversations difficult to have.
i’ve heard myself witnessing instead of visiting, and out of my own mouth was far more often the word “but” … it is argumentative and is a subtle way of drawing swords with people. i’ve been such a silly man … rarely, if ever, did anyone ever come to the Lord as the result of a metaphorical sword fight. When i learned to ask questions and allow myself to conversate without the need to win, allowing myself to be involved in the lives of others, i began to see results, bearing of much fruit.
On redeeming our internal narrative, which is where our conflict resolution begins, actually is a process. Within everyone there is a conversation going on, we may not be aware of it, we may not want to admit it or admit to the contents of that internal narrative, but it is there.
Psalm 37:14, “The wicked draw the sword and bend their bows to bring down the poor and needy, to slay those whose way is upright;”.
Right there, where the translators used the words “way is upright”, a more exact translation would be “whose conversation is upright”, meaning not only outwardly, but their internal narrative is upright. The same Hebrew word, which in this case is our word for conversation, draws a picture of a well worn path, or a path which is worn from constantly being walked on, and when in groups, it draws a picture of marching together … or … a conversation.
Conversations, when in a group setting, are like people marching together, on their way somewhere.
In Prov31:3, “your ways” doesn’t necessarily mean the way you do things, but more speaks of your internal narrative, in other words, don’t give your internal conversation over to those things which destroy … or don’t allow yourself a downward spiraling internal conversation so often you begin to believe your own rhetoric … i must also add, that escaping our own dark thoughts isn’t always easy by any means, so we must get help. In fact, the very last letter of the Hebrew word for “conversation” has, among other meanings, a meaning of “your”, implying the conversation you have with yourself, your internal narrative. Allowing ourselves honest conversations with the Lord tends to redeem our internal narrative, it brings rectification and clarity…which is why, if we need counseling, it is profitable.
Among the words used for heal and “make whole” in the N.T., is the word “therapeuo”, used 44 times, and it’s where we get our English word for therapy, meaning a system of treatments intended to heal and restore. Within this word not only is there a meaning of being made well, but also the idea of having to wait in the course of conversation, and waiting is a time element … meaning we talk it out … .. of course, there are all sorts of therapies, antibiotic therapy, shock therapy, oxygen therapy, heat therapy, and in our case considering the topic is a good conversation, talk therapy. Without Godly conversations, we are often left only to our internal narrative, and if we have a propensity to negativity, remember, people are going to catch what you’ve really got, not what you think you’ve got. It is a human tendency to gravitate towards what we want to fix and forget to celebrate what we have.
In 1Kings18:27, Elijah was mocking the prophets of Baal when, regardless of all their crying out and self-mutilation, their god (little “g”) didn’t show up … Elijah mockingly said, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Could be he is lost in thought, or in the toilet, or maybe he is on a journey, or perhaps he’s asleep and must be awakened.” Where he said, “on a journey”, it’s the same word for “conversation”, so we could read it another way to say, “maybe he is stuck in a conversation someplace or has gone somewhere and can’t be gotten a hold of …” i do believe the false prophets of Baal were probably sufficiently antagonized, driving them into a frenzy.
In all this, let me draw a conclusion that there are many conversations which happen in scripture, from ones which last across several chapters to simple ones like in Luke 6:11 when the people were filled with rage and were having a heated conversation concerning what to do with Jesus. They were conflicted. How does your internal narrative sound? Is it an upward spiral or a downward spiral? So … if it’s a downward spiral more often than not, what are you gonna do about that? Let’s not hide it but resolve it so there is no reason for hiding and secrets any longer.
Having a good conversation, one that is profitable and builds us up though, ahhh … that may not be as easy to come by as we might hope. What a conversation is and how we do it is one thing, but where does our best conversation begin and why?
From the beginning, the Lord has been soliciting conversation with all of mankind. He wants to be involved with us and want us to desire His words and thoughts above all others. As was previously mentioned, in Genesis 2 & 3, of the first eight recorded statements the Lord made, four were questions, which was the Lord’s invitation for us to conversate with Him. i believe God even goes so far sometimes to, sort of, pick a fight with us to get us to be involved with Him. i could be completely incorrect, but in Genesis 32 it sure looks like the Lord didn’t mind grappling with Jacob. If that’s where God needs to go to get our attention, our Father is not above a little wrestling to get us to be involved with Him, why? … because the Lord knows our interaction and conversation with Him is life giving, healing, and makes opportunity for Him to share wisdom and hope with us.
In the Hebrew word for conversation, it breaks down as meaning a door for clarification and an opportunity to venture below the surface of our presentation face, conversation is a call to allow our thinking’s and musings to be elevated above the horizon, in other words to lift them above street level to be discovered and to not allow our thoughts to remain buried like secrets concerning hidden things.
In Luke 20, when the chief priests, scribes, and elders put a question to Jesus, He didn’t shrink back from the rough water ahead. In fact, my paraphrase here, He leaned into them and fired back, “Oh yea, I hear your question, so now i’m gonna ask you a question too!” He was not afraid of the conversation … in fact, He leaned into their space and took them up on their challenge. God is the master of conversation, and was willing to walk with them if they were willing to tread the path with Him.
In Luke 24:13 there is what i call the “Seven Mile Conversation”. Luke 24:13-27 tells the story about two disciples on the way to Emmaus, about a 7-mile walk taking approx. 3.5hrs or a little more. They were walking and talking … discussing, or reasoning together about the things which had been going on. While on “the way” Jesus joined them in their conversation, but their eyes were restrained and they didn’t know it was Jesus. Jesus asked them a question (which was an invitation to join the conversation) in vs 17 … He asked, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” or, “What are you guys talking about?” Scripture says, “And they stood still, looking sad.” Cleopas replied, “Man, haven’t you heard of all the things going on? Where have you been?” Then Jesus asked a second question in vs 19, “What things?”, meaning, “Tell me about it.” As they walked on, the two told him all the account of Jesus of Nazareth, and how Jesus did this, and the Pharisee’s did that, and how the Lord had been crucified, they said they were hoping Israel was going to be redeemed, but it just didn’t appear that’s how things turned out … they told Him how this was the third day, and the women couldn’t find the body, then met some angels at the tomb who said Jesus was alive, but in light of all these things, they weren’t quite sure what to think. Then Jesus poured the testimony on them. He laid it out beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
When they reached the village where they were going, the Lord made like He was going to leave their company, but they insisted He stay on with them (inviting Jesus into their inner circle). Finally, when they sat down to eat, Jesus broke bread and their eyes were opened. i bet they were blown away, and even more so when Jesus suddenly disappeared. Oh man, they really had things to talk about now. They were so excited, they got up and walked all the way back to Jerusalem to tell the others … which would have made another 7-mile conversation … It was a very good day, a very good walk, and a very, very good conversation. Think about it.
In the movie “The Last Samurai”, Katsumoto, who is a samurai Lord, has taken Capt. Nathan Algren captive and hauled him back to their village for the winter. As the movie progresses, i noticed that Algren, at first, only tells answers and Katsumoto keeps asking questions. Katsumoto’s questions were an invitation into a relationship which Algren does not want. At one-point Capt. Algren roars at Katsumoto, “What do you want from me?” At that point Katsumoto, calmly says, “I want a gooood conversation.” As far as Katsumoto was concerned, just because his enemy was in the camp didn’t mean they couldn’t walk the roads of the village and have conversations. A good conversation was as valuable to the samurai Lord as was good food, well honed weapons, and beautifully executed art … a good conversation was highly prized and was probably considered art in itself.
Conversation is how people get to know what we’re about, it’s how people get to look at aspects of us which aren’t so readily seen. In our vulnerability during the back and forth talk of conversation, we get to see the green shoots of grace growing in other people’s back yards, and if we don’t master small talk, we’ll never see those things.
Conversation is where we connect and are connected with, and learning to ask questions is as much an art as letting God make us beautiful for the world to behold. In our conversations with God, He will redeem our internal narrative making it easier for us to march together on a path worn by constant walking. Do you have conversations with God, or do you just hand Him your shopping list? We want Him to be vulnerable with us yet we are scared to pieces to be vulnerable with Him. Jesus is waiting with delightful anticipation for you to come and sit a while with Him, and have good conversation … eventually one which will never end.
Good conversation is not scripted, although we may have some objectives, still it is not scripted. We must go with the flow and listen … some may feel they are putting themselves at risk because they must be vulnerable and transparent, but we really need to get over the fear of someone seeing us as we are … the Lord has been inviting us into a continuous conversation with Him since the garden as even today it is still God’s standing invitation to conversate with Him … don’t you know, when we get home to Jesus it will be an eternal conversation, a glorious conversation filled with music and companionship with God, and He will be our light and sun for ever.
Drive carefully, pray for your neighbors, take the time to get to know who lives near you, let them know you by letting them into your life and allowing them to see Jesus who lives in you. Be strong and courageous! Amen!